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i am so glad you decided to discuss this topic......


The feminist movement killed chivalry.

I agree with Steve Harvey, we as women have to set the standard of how we want to be treated. We have become to needy and dependant on having some man around that we will settle for whatever he brings not what want. Like Steve said if you ask the man to do something and he leaves that wasn't the man for you, if a man really wants you he will step up to the plate. Women need to let it be known.

read In Search of Goodpussy by Don Spears. Steve Harvey stole his book from this man. its a MUCH better read and you'll be supporting the REAL!

I'll check that out!!

yeah me too!

please do! i am soooooooooooooo disgusted with how steve harvey is parading around like this book is his own! steve's book was just not an easy read. i had to force myway thru it. In Search of is brilliantly witty and real as hell! let me know what y'all think!

p.s. i'm soooo mia cuz i'm lazy and tired of typin my name in everytime i comment heheheheheee

Okay I will...we're supposed to be reading the steve harvey book for a "book club" I'm in....lol....

But I'll recommend this one :)


And stop being lazy....lol...before you end up in a category u don't want to be in lol...(j/k) lmao

lol! girl i'm such a slut! i need everything to be easy u fees me?! anywho recommend that book. my book club chose steves book also and i irked! he's a bita not a writa yaDIIIIIIIIIG?!?! lol don spears will edutain ya more. i mean if ya gonna sit and cackled bout niggas at least learn something from the given text is my motto...steve just asserted his same tacky opinion and no solutions really. don was like "fugg like a champyun then cook a great meal" hehehehe

@hazy sin
co-sign you cant run around saying i wanna be the same as a man but still retain the benefits of a woman. Dont work like that i dont open doors for my homeboys

Exactly.....thats why i blame the death of chivalry completely on the feminist movement, females rioted to be treated as women....burnin bras and all that crazy mess.


...side note....

I in no way agree with the motive of the "feminist movement"...my grandma explained it to me as something thrown together to overshadow any civil right movement going during that time period and that black female never really agreed because we were already fighting for more important thing...SHIT I WOULD RATHER BE IN A KITCHEN!!!

women make it easy for men to be on bs. if sistas didn't settle for thebare bones they'd get steak. my white girlfriend don't settle for 1/90th of what my black girlfriends do. when i was in atl we had a great discussion on this. the rich white housewives just expected to be where they are. they felt so entitled. the sistas were shocked and amazed and behaved so absudly because they weren't used to havin shit/men be right! its crazy. i refuse to lower my standards and because of that i exclusively date outside of my race. when you carry yourself in a way that shows you only accept the VERY best, doors being opened,dates being paid for etc, a manwill follow that example. of course the random loser slips thru and thas when u kic and pay your half and move to the bar and converse with a new guy in his face!

The men that lack it

The women that allow it

The women that are offended by it

The parents that don’t teach it

Feminism

Evolution

And the list goes on, but it’s like the "what came first, the chicken or the egg" question...it's hard to say "who started it"

I don't know if it started with feminism but I do believe that has a huge hand in it. Woman are considered a “minority” group and just like all groups that have been wrongly placed in that category, rebellion has ensued…and instead of taking the real issues that hold women back, they’ve chosen to attack most of what men do – essentially throwing out the baby with the bath water.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the concepts of chivalry – I think being considered “minority and second class” have forced some women to reject any and all efforts of men to be gentlemanly instead of focusing on the issues that truly belittle or detract from our ability and contributions as women. In the end we have confused the shyt out of men and they no longer know what to do to please us and/or not offend us.

The result is that “a lot” of us, men and women included, have chosen to operate at the extreme end of the issue

Even though our roles as women and men have evolved over time, there are some things that will not and should not ever change - basic courteous behavior should never go out of style.

open your own door the day a girl trips off that its a red flag that she goonna be a attitude problem. its too many issues out today then some doors be more concerned iff he call you a hoe, smack you, cheats,or if he is std free or not.if you wanna be equal so damn bad open your own door

@ "if you wanna be equal so damn bad"

We are equal.

The problem is with people who don't understand the meaning of equality or who are afraid that being equal will somehow give another gender or race an advantage

If human life could go on without us then yes, we would not be equals...but it can't

Men need women just like women need men for the human race to survive.

Our roles and what we contribute to life are clearly different but that does not make either one greater than the other

lol nope! a real man opens and secures the door then proceeds around to the other side of the car. i refuse to lower myself to your level! but u have fun down there as the air up here is much fresher. crisp even! the other issues you mentioned are rarely if evera concern forme because idon't even invite men like that into my life. i refuse to be disrespected on any level... i can teach you this game whenever you're ready!

p.s. i know my place as a woman andhave no desire to beequal to a man. i enjoy fuggin and cooking and mothering and cosigning and praising my man. don't need to be him. just a compliment to him!

I think the red flag goes up when you come across a man that trips off you asking him to please open your door. There's a way in which you talk to people. If she were to say, "Umm you need to open this door for me, you see me standing here." Then yea I can understand that. But if she says it in a respectful way and you're feeling her, why wouldn't you want to be the man and open her door?

I've seen men open doors for women who were with their boyfriend. Why? B/c for whatever reason their boyfriend didn't do it. But then you get mad when he opens the door for her. Step up to the plate. It's so easy to be a gentlemen around a female you like. Maybe you're going out w/ females you're not really feeling.

Here is how i feel about the situation I mean true i believe every woman should set standards and try her hardest not to lower them.....but at the same time. I dont know about the rest of the ladies in here but i grew up in an age where interacial dating was every where, a black man with a white girl. It was all over tv, starting to be come more and more at my high school, and was getting a little bananas at college. So with me being a black woman who loves black men i was curious to this trend, and everytime my answer as to why was.....THAT WHITE GIRLS ARE EASY................so due to the fact that it was becoming the norm for us to lose our men to the easier women..I believe we started to lower our standards and not be so hard, so that we would attract our brothers back. So now its our fault that we get treated the way we do...so now its stop being easy(hoes)so you can get a man, and back then it was stop being hard (bitches) so you can get a man. I mean damn its like we cant win for losing...we either hoes or bitches........

@ Shannon
I have never dated but maybe one or two white women i love black women and not gonna stop, after some reflection when brothers are saying white women are easy. They dont mean in the ho way they mean easy to deal with. Alot of black women have lost there feminity due to have to assume the roles of both man and women which sucks but its true. The majority of white women dont have to deal with that type of thing so they tend to act like women. Alot of black women have a pissing match with you which is not attractive. I mean what if your dude was curled up watching lifetime with a pint of ben and jerrys? You would pack your bags quick and bounce

As a guy on this issue I do blame the idea of "equality for all women" etc.

I also blame it on the idea of the nice guy finnishes last type mentality. I hate to say it but if you treat a woman well (which I include in Chivalry) most women will walk all over you. These are the same woman that you go to dinner with, pay the bill, open car doors etc, but then tell you "You are one of my best friends, I can't take that any further." At the same time the guy that doesn't do sh!t for her, the guy who treats her shitty, puts her second is the one that gets all her attention.

Yes I know that this isn't all girls but from a guys perspectative you can see that many girls are more attracted to the a$$hole rather than the nice guy, this alone has damaged if not helped eliminate chivalry.

There ARE women out there that appreciate this, they may just be rare, as is the man that does it.

I believe this but the problem is finding one with the same standards and appreciation.

@ "I believe we started to lower our standards and not be so hard, so that we would attract our brothers back. - I mean damn its like we cant win for losing"

and

"These are the same woman that you go to dinner with, pay the bill, open car doors etc, but then tell you "You are one of my best friends, I can't take that any further." At the same time the guy that doesn't do sh!t for her, the guy who treats her shitty, puts her second is the one that gets all her attention."


The guys who pursues or pines over this type of woman is no different than the girl who goes for the guy who treats her like shyt.

Why are we so drawn to and disappointed by people who don't want or appreciate what we have to offer?

If you know you're a "nice guy" your time and attention shouldn't be wasted on any woman who doesn't appreciate that...and the same goes for a "good woman" - a good "one" may be harder to find but it shouldn't force a change in our personal standards - doing so just means that when a potential "right one" does come along he/she won't want you cause you now don't meet their standard...the same standard you once held before you let the unworthy one change you

Stick to your standards

I agree but when asked what killed Chivalry, I was just adding my 2 cents. I am not changing my attitude or adjusting my morals or behavior to chase after some girl that is going for the a$$hole, I was just saying that this is part of the reason why chivalry has disappeared.

Oh I feel you, I wasn't knocking your response, hope it didn't seem that way, I zeroed in on that piece because its true - there are a lot of people who feel what you described and I've seen it change people for the worse

I'm beginning to think that the media may have a lot to do with it. And i'm not talking about little boys listening to rap and going to school calling girls bitches, I'm talking about grown men and women that should know better. We all know media molds people's perception and thinking and with songs like "She Got Her Own" by Ne-Yo & Jamie Foxx (for example) men are thinking yea those lyrics should always hold true.

She don't slow down 'cause she ain't got time
To be complaining, shawty gone shine
She don't expect nothing from no guy

Only kinda girl I want
Independent queen workin' for her throne
I love her cause she got her own...

Plus she got drive that matches my drive
Sexy Thang
She stay fly
All the while payin' her bills on time
She don't look at me like Captain save 'em
Gold Diggin, no she don't do that
Now she look at me like inspiration
She wanna be complimentin' my swag
And everything she got, she worked for it,
Good life made for it
She take pride in sayin' that she paid for it


Why can't I have the same drive as you and still let you be the MAN in the relationship?
This is definitely NOT to say that I would not take my man out or pay for something he wants but I think once it becomes a habit there is a domino effect that can take place. Further on in the relationship when she starts saying stuff like, "Nigga, shut the hell up, I paid for everything you have on" men will realize that they lost their place as the "man."

I'm very curious to know if the men who've commented really believe that women are not equal...

I don't mean the radical feminist versions and definitions of equality...

I mean simply as humans do you all consider woman to be less important, beneath you in value and importance?

Some of the comments read a little jaded if not angry - which I can understand because there are women who take it to the extreme so maybe they seem that way or have developed into such based on personal experiences but equality can mean different things to different people and the feminists will have you believe all women need to prove their strength and worth by trying to do everything a man can do - but that's not every women's idea of what equality is

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about equality. If for a man that still practices chivalery would the woman opening his car door be an example of equality? I believe that women are equals with men in many aspects, but then again are different in others, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. No matter equal or not I have always believed since I first went hanging out with girls there are two things for sure a women should never pay for, thats a movie ticket and dinner/lunch etc. I believe in a setting of just you and a woman that it is almost a date atmosphere and the man should pick up the bill. Do I believe this because typically men make more money than women... hell no, I just believe it is the gentleman thing to do. Also I still will find myself holding a door open for a woman, pulling her chair out for her at dinner etc not because they are unequal but because again its a way to show respect for the lady you are with. Also I am the guy that will give up my seat at a bar or bus for a woman, or pass my jacket on to a female friend that is cold. I guess it is how I was raised. Its nothing to do with equality, it all has to do with respect.

In addition though I am always the person who says thank you to everyone for everything, or have a nice day when I am the customer. This has nothing to do with equality but more with respect, ethics, and morals. I do not believe that chivalry has anything to do with equality, other than the fact that some women wish to be seen as equals and in doing so shun away from chivalry from any male.

You made excellent points!

There is nothing demeaning or offensive about a man being a gentleman or respectful. Being in a position to accept a kind gesture doesn't make a woman inferior

Also, equal doesn't always have to mean "same" and people tend to have trouble separating the two. Traditionally men have the roll as the breadwinner and woman as the caregiver/homemaker - those rolls balance each other out, neither is greater than the other.

We've become too quick to assigning higher value to one task over the other instead of looking at it's importance in the bigger picture...yeah he can go to the office and close that big deal securing a nice commision but how successful will he be on an empty stomach sportin a dirty suit and ring around the collar ??? also she can be the best cook in the world and know how to keep a perfect house but if there is no money to shop for the food and the cleaning supplies or to even pay for the house, then what ???

Very nice to see a man that knows chivalry and gentlemanly behavior has nothing to do with equality and I believe feminists were the first to confuse the issue on that...

There are some very important basic "human" rights that have been fought for and won as a result of the feminist movement, but overall I believe they have taken it too far - they have woman wishing and fighting for something that we already possess

like dave chappele said...chivalry is dead, and woman killed it

#1 Fcuk a Steve Harvey

#2 Depending on the household men grew up in, they might not inherently be chivalrous. I mean chivalrous like opening doors, etc. Thats a part of etiquette that you have to learn, whether at a young age or the hard way. Theres a difference between men not being "a gentleman" and having no common courtesy. That pay for your bill ish was plain ole BS! Nothing to do with chivalry.

hi5! steve harvey irks me! and the fact that they took Tom Joyner off to have his cusin kuntry ass on 2 diff station in chicago is annoying as HELL! not to mention hestole his entire book from Don Spears! [read in search of good pu@#$%y! instead of his new plag'd work act like a hatin beyotch]

some people grew up in places where they never saw "the right" thing to do. and in that case you show them. NICELY! "open my dayum door" will be better received as "bay, you should walk on that side or open the door for me. what if a bommaloom try to man me down? you'd be jealousand sad right? ok then![insert smile and pinch on his man muscle]"

the gesture will be seen as cute and girly and u'll turn him on a lil bit squeezin that area....i can teach u this game fa free.99 yaDIIIIG?!?!

Chivalry isn't dead. However, if women, especially some of our black women want us to open doors, hold doors, take their coats, send flowers, and other considerate acts, then we as men expect some ladylike actions as well. 1. Don't come off as a lady, but have a mouth like a sailor just to prove how "real" you are. 2. Leave the attitude at home and just enjoy the date. 3. If you are well educated and brought up well, you can have a decent and intelligent conversation without demeaning black men or bringing up your ex. In this day and age, women definitely don't carry themselves the way they should. 4. Please! Please! don't order up any whisky, Long Islands, or beer just to say you can "hang".

@ if women, especially some of our black women want us to open doors, hold doors, take their coats, send flowers, and other considerate acts, then we as men expect some ladylike actions as well.

True chivalry and/or gentlemanly behavior has nothing to do with how the woman conducts herself and true ladylike behavior has nothing to do with how the man conducts himself

Those behaviors should not be limited to something you do on a "date"

So what if you opened my door, took my coat and pulled out my chair, if I spot you on the city bus the next morning seated while an elderly lady OR man is standing in front of you hanging on for dear life and you don't offer your seat, then you're really not a gentleman after all and I'm turned off regardless of how respectably you conducted yourself on the date AND the same should hold true for you, if you see me walking down the street spitting and cursing with a 40 oz in my hand you're gonna be turned off - won't matter that I didn't curse, had a pleasant demeanor and ordered some fruity lady drink on our date

You either are a gentleman or you're not - you either are a lady or you're not, neither should ever be dependent on how someone else conducts themself

"True chivalry and/or gentlemanly behavior has nothing to do with how the woman conducts herself and true ladylike behavior has nothing to do with how the man conducts himself"

IS FRIGGIN RETARDED LIKE TWO LEFF' SHOES IN HIGHLITA BLUE!

unless you're an alien, most people i know treat people according to how they were treated! you sense out a situation and if ur on a date with a thug mugg, you don't speak about things that won't interest him or behave in a fasshion that more on the bougoise side of boughetto....if a woman is all crunk and disorderly, you won't treat her like a princess and go the extra mile. if i'm at a drive up and the server is extra mctrashy i'm not going to tell her to have a great day, i'll say rejoice inur employment and get over it...see what i mean?

i am THE MOST ladylike person you'll meet while still holdin on to some necessary hood qualities and i definitely don't treat every person the same...my home trainin is nawlins bread and i know what to do where and how but i will skip some steps if the situation or person calls for me to do so. exercising that judgement is a true display of gentlemanly or womanly character!

Hiiiii Thoney!!!!

Its almost flattering that I irk you to a point where reading comprehension and common sense escapes you…

Nothing in my comment even remotely suggests anything as extreme as your response…

Gentleman/ladylike behavior has nothing to do with interests, lifestyle or topics of conversation so YES you can be on a date with a “thug mugg”, behave in accordance with your company and still be ladylike…

Thugs can be gentlemanly – I’ve had thugs hold doors open as I entered a building, stop cursing when I entered a room, apologize if they let a foul word slip in the unexpected presence of my daughter etc and I’ve witnessed well dressed educated business men fail to do any of the above

Being gentlemanly to that woman who is all crunk and disorderly doesn’t mean treating her like a princess…it may simply mean making your exit from the restaurant/bar/party and making sure she gets home safely…

Being ladylike doesn’t mean you take shyt from people and let them walk over you, it has to do with how you respond to it not whether you respond to it, you can put someone in their place without stooping to their level

I’m sorry your environment and the people you know have offered you such limited experiences but it does explain a lot, but don’t worry you’re still young, all is not lost

"Gentleman/ladylike behavior has nothing to do with interests, lifestyle or topics of conversation "

just stop talking already you're stupidER than the blogosphere should allow!

if u haven't noticed i enjoy iggin U! goin back and forth is a fun way to pass the day before i go volunteering or shopping or humping! hehehehe! don't take me so seriously chile! sheesh! p.s. dummy mcfrumpkins, i never asserted that being ladylike means u take ish from people! who was "Being ladylike doesn’t mean you take shyt from people and let them walk over you, it has to do with how you respond to it not whether you respond to it" directed twd? if they asserted that i'll irk them like i irk you....

p.p.s. i never said thugs can't be gentleman. my brow specialist in the hood barely knew me and when they got to shootin, he picked me up and carried me to the back of the shop. if that there ain' chivalry i don't know what IS!? they also "get ta speakin good cuz hani talk like a whitegirl....u can't do everything around her" my sheer presence commands that so i'm not disaggreeing with u there. however when wego to the local bar i don't speak about stocks and sororities, i more or less chop up what i heard on the block, who'sgot the fattest _____, and how they can better improve their hustlin skills.... see the difference simpleton[thas a vocab word look it up]

limited?! before i turned 21 i did more than you could dream of and i'm still doin the DAYUM thang on a budget like a shoestrang! yayayadiiiiiig?!?! lol my experiences are wonderfully varried from dodging bullets and hustlin to personally dining with aristocrats/being pressured to join an elitist organization for the uppity niggras. i thank God for both as they are equally beneficial and valued....cut ya tongue for reducing the people and places and times in my life as limited! yes, i am young, and to have done all that i do i am thankful...sheeeiiiit i could be old and bitter and retarded like u! my how life would suck then!

:-D

AMEN! and SHAVE! a lotta sistas don't shave and that bothers my spirut! ARG! how gross! seriously! i can't stand it when i see these furrzly bears all lookin crazy!
i also exclusively drink wine with the rare occassional mixed drink if they don't have a white that suits me. i hate when i see women getting hammered and acting crazy just to "hang" and i could if i wanted to as most hatians can drank like no other. but its not ladylike.... sistas definitely need to work on being womanly...its hard when we have soooooo many obstacles and have to play the man and woman roles often in our everyday trials, but it CAN be done....i refuse to lose my inner lady because i have to change my own tires/oil....